In this episode, which originally aired in radio format on April 28th, 2022, I share my conversation with chronic pain recovery coach Lily Oster. Together we explore some of the concepts presented in the book The Way Out, by Alan Gordon, and Lily explains the phenomenon of neuroplastic pain (a.k.a. mind-body pain), how to determine if you have it (most chronic pain IS neuroplastic), and how to get the hell out of it. Hint: it's basically a spiritual thing.